SC&A Sound Off: Israel Response ‘Disproportionate’? Poppycock!!!

July 13, 2006

So the UN and the EU believe the Israeli response to the Palestinian and Lebanese is ‘disproportianate’?

To that, we say poppycock!!

Where are the rules for a ‘appropriate’ response written? What exactly is the appropriate response to regimes that pose an existential threat to a free society?

How dare the Europeans, after the Holocaust, deny Jews the right defend themselves with all the might they can muster? How dare the French, with the history of the collaborator Vichy Government, tell the Israelis what is and isn’t appropriate when it comes to their well being? How dare they lecture Israel!

In France, Jews have been targeted for violence and have been killed, even as the French government allows extremists to preach hate, bigotry and violence from religious pulpits and stae supported religious schools. Notwithstanding the French government’s feigned pain and indignation at the growing violence directed at Jews, the Rabbis in France have told Jews not to wear identifying clothing and head coverings. That is the painful reality. While it is clear threat to French Jews is very real, it is equally as clear that the French response has been less than stellar.

The Russian response is not as surprising. From Stalin’s ‘Doctors Plot to the gulag, Jews have always been the target of modern Russia. Old habits die hard, it seems.

Israel has every right to defend herself every way she sees fit. It isn’t as if Europe has a great track record of defending Jews. As Jews were trying to leave Germany prior to the war, European countries blocked their borders to increased immigration. The Swiss were kind enough to send them back to Germany. Undoubtably, the EU member states (and America and Canada) have forgotten their own shameful behavior that allowed for the death of uncounted souls.

Day in and day out, for decades, the Israelis and Jews are bombarded with vicious and vile hate from the Arab world. Day in and day out, Israel is promised destruction, violations of the most heinous kind and ‘rivers of blood.’ We are told that thousands of volunteers are ready to bring mayhem and violence to the Israelis.

The UN is up in arms as the Israelis bomb empty building and runways. No word from the UN on the ongoing rapes and slaughter in Darfur by the Arab Janjaweed. That’s no real surprise. The UN didn’t care when a million were killed in Rwanda, either.

Europe and the UN have no business talking about ‘restraint’ and ‘disproportionate’ responses.
Here’s a reality pill: The Israelis have been remarkably restrained.

The Palestinians and Hizbollah wanted to play. Now, they will have to pay.

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32 Responses to “SC&A Sound Off: Israel Response ‘Disproportionate’? Poppycock!!!”

  1. MaxedOutMama Says:

    I think I can’t post links, but there is this article at Reuters about an official Saudi comment:
    http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=newsOne&storyID=2006-07-13T222443Z_01_L13880815_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-LEBANON-SAUDI.xml
    “Saudi Arabia on Thursday blamed “elements” inside Lebanon for the violence with Israel, in unusually frank language directed at guerrilla group Hizbollah and its Iranian backers.

    “A distinction must be made between legitimate resistance and uncalculated adventures undertaken by elements inside (Lebanon) and those behind them without recourse to the legal authorities and consulting and coordinating with Arab nations,” a statement carried by the official news agency SPA said.

    These elements should bear the responsibility for their irresponsible actions and they alone should end the crisis they have created.

    Hasn’t the world become interesting?

  2. SC&A Says:

    You are right.

    The world we live in is changing. In fact, Saudi atitudes are self serving.

    Unrestrained and uncontrolled ‘actions’ are not something the Saudis can afford to support. There is no lov elost between the Shiaa Hizbollah and the Saudis.

  3. MaxedOutMama Says:

    And why should there be? And why should the Saudis respond to Edgy Adji’s call to arms? What do the Emirates, Kuwait etc have to gain by this? Nothing. They are not eagar for Iran’s yoke.

  4. SC&A Says:

    That is what makes edji’s threat dangerous- his is blustering, and can’t back it up.

    He may lash out…

  5. IA_ Says:

    With the Saudis proclaiming their desire to drown Israel in nuclear radiation, how can Europe chastise Israel for self-defense? Israel and to a lesser extent the US are the only nations keeping Europe from feeling the force of the Islamic movement. Why attack Europe when Israel is a closer target?

  6. Charlotte Says:

    Israël’s response WAS disproportionately tame. The Islamobarbarians want to make as many victims as possible. The Israëlis always reply by destroying carefully selected targets, and this is why they will never win the game, unless they answer barbarity by barbarity: entirely destroy one Arab city for each attack. Then let the French ask for more restraint – but the conflict will have ended then.

  7. P. Edward Murray Says:

    Hamas & Hezbollah must go now. Iran & Syria must be reined in but that may even be harder.

  8. Noumena Says:

    I find it deeply ironic that you’re essentiallly giving a relativist argument to support Israel — ‘Only Israel knows what’s appropriate for Israel’ — when, just one post earlier, you condemn other nations in the Middle East according to universalist grounds: “Universal laws no longer exist in the Arab world. What was once assumed to be understood as universal expressions of civilized behavior is no longer a reality in the Arab world.” Then, in the post immediately after this one, you seem to approvingly quote someone who calls a relativist position sickening and pseudo-fascist.

    But let’s assume you’re right in this post, and wrong in the others, that Israel alone has the right to determine what’s appropriate or not in its self-preservation. Then it seems this same maxim applies to the Palestinians and Lebanese as well: who are you to say their tactics are inappropriate?

  9. SC&A Says:

    My argument is anything buit relativist!

    My argument is predicated on reality- the reality that since it’s inception, the Arab world has viciously been promoting her destruction.

    As for universal laws, where else but in the Arab world are universal laws being so universally broken?

    Now, to your last point- the Israelis have not threatened the Palestinians or Lebanese with rivers of blood and other heinous crimes.

    As I noted, the Palestiniansd and Lebanese can respond any way they wish.

    They wanted to play- now, they will have to pay.

    By the way, see this: http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2006/07/singing-out-of-flock.html

  10. Bilgeman Says:

    SCA:

    “So the UN and the EU believe the Israeli response to the Palestinian and Lebanese is ‘disproportianate’?”

    They’re lucky that I’m not callin’ the shots for the IDF…

    I’ve got a “thing” for napalm…ever since I used to go along on Tactical Air Control Party mortar shoots.

    Beautiful stuff…just beautiful.
    Biblical, even.

    And rather a kind of poetic justice…we get the oil from the Arabs, we refine it into gasoline, thicken it, and then give it right back to ‘em.

    Nothin’ would “express one’s feelings” like a napalm carpet-bombing of the Gaza.

    If you jump, jump big…or stay on the bench.

    Regards;

  11. SC&A Says:

    Bilge…. you missed your calling.

    Carville has nothing on you.

  12. BillyHW Says:

    Don’t expect any love from the Frankistanis.

  13. Bilgeman Says:

    Billy:

    “Don’t expect any love from the Frankistanis.”

    All I expect from anyone is good behavior…when the consequences of bad behavior is a sea of fire from the sky.

    SCA:

    “Carville has nothing on you.”

    Serpenthead is a punk. I’m all too familiar with the type. Like my first impression of Clinton…makes my flesh crawl.

    Regards;

  14. Bilgeman Says:

    Like I said, Biblical. This wasn’t napalm, it was probably jet fuel, but notmuch different:

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/israellebanon.jpg

  15. SC&A Says:

    Saw the pic.

    That is the stuff nightmares are made of.

  16. Bilgeman Says:

    SCA;

    “That is the stuff nightmares are made of.”

    Yep, beautiful in it’s terror, ain’t it? You should see it up close, see it blossom,feel the radiant heat on your face, hear the roar, smell the fuel.

    And when you’ve helped call it in, it’s addictive.

    There’s nothing like a nightmare to make one WANT to wake the fuck up.

    And WANTING something is the essential motivation in achieving it.

    Regards;


  17. [...] SC&A have some thoughts on proportionate responses. [...]

  18. Noumena Says:

    Your third paragraph: “Where are the rules for a ‘appropriate’ response written? What exactly is the appropriate response to regimes that pose an existential threat to a free society?”

    The clear line of argument seems to be that there are no such rules, and only the nation that’s being threatened can determine what actions are appropriate. You toss out some red herrings about the Holocaust and the attitude you attribute towards the Palestinians et al, but those are clearly irrelevant to the argument I’m highlighting. So your conclusion is of the form ‘Only X can legitimately determine what’s right for X to do’; what else is this but a simple form of relativism?

  19. SC&A Says:

    Noumena, you note, that I ..”toss out some red herrings about the Holocaust and the attitude you attribute towards the Palestinians et al, but those are clearly irrelevant to the argument I’m highlighting.”

    Those remarks, Noumena, are not irrelevant. In fact, they are very germane to the discussion.

    The Arab world, if they chose, could rigthtly point a finger at Europe (and the Christian world) when it came to the Holocaust. Instead, as the the world rejected and exorcised the ideologies of the Holocaust (and faced a lot of inner soul searching). Instead, the Arab world embraced the Holocaust and routinely promise to ‘Finish what Hitler started.’

    (As an aside, it is interesting to note that those most vocal about Holocaust denial are the same people who think it was a good idea.)

    In the name of a vile political agenda, an entire religion was coerced into being redefined by hate and bigotry- attributes not in evidence for centuries.

    To equate the Arab world and the Israelis is absurd.

    Cutures and societies that claim to embrace peace, preach and teach peace. Cultures that claim to stand for tolerance, preach and teach tolerance.

    An Arab friend once noted that the real Naqbah was audio and video tape. He remarked that the Arab world can no longer hide what theu had become from the world- or themselves.

    The Palestinians, Lebanese and the Arab world can do as they please- how they behave is a reflection of who they have become.

    As for red herrings, claiming the ‘occupation’ is the cause of all this, is absurd. The Israelies are ‘occupiers’ because the Arab world wants it that way. See this for a bit of history- and reality:
    http://sigmundcarlandalfred.wordpress.com/2006/07/13/an-sca-refresher-course-on-the-middle-east/

    As I noted, the Palestinians, et al, can and do behave they want to.

    It is interesting to note however, how many Lebanese are now speaking up- in defence of Israel’s actions against both Hamas and Hizbollah.

  20. Noumena Says:

    What does any of that have to do with whether or not there are universal standards for how hostile nations interact?


  21. [...] As expected, there is great indignation from the Arab world at the force Israel is using in combatting Hizbollah and Hamas. As those two organizations escalated their attack on Israel, that country retaliated with a determination long not seen. It is that determination that has upset much of the Arab world. The Israeli response has been ‘over the top.’ We addressed this issue, a few days ago. [...]

  22. Intellectual Pariah Says:

    It’s obvious that Israel gets more than its share of carping criticism… but I agree with Noumena.

    Let’s go for reductio ad absurdum. Your argument seems to support that proposition that if Israel, in order to pressure Hamas, were to kidnap and torture to death Arab children, broadcasting their sufferings over the internet, such acts would be beyond criticism, since only Israel can determine appropriateness of its actions. Since I don’t think you guys are moral monsters, I have to assume there’s something wrong with your argument.

  23. vieux loujp Says:

    Getting back to the topic of the post, I find the reaction of the EU (particularly France) and the UN reprehensible. I am especially curious to know what the reaction would be if the current conflict in the ME was moved to the borders between Germany and France. What would the French reaction be?

    Like it or not, every nation has the right to defend itself and Israel has decided to do such with measure.

  24. Koneko Says:

    Are you claiming to practice this sentiment?
    “Cutures and societies that claim to embrace peace, preach and teach peace. Cultures that claim to stand for tolerance, preach and teach tolerance.”
    Because previous posts lead me to think that would not be the case.
    “The UN is up in arms as the Israelis bomb empty building and runways” You justify Israel’s right to do whatever it wants and you support the bombings, you tell all other countries they need to keep their mouths shut because the Jewish people have been through the Holocaust, have been treated badly throughout history, and it give Israel the right to do whatever it wants.
    You call that tolerant?

  25. SC&A Says:

    Koneko, what gives Israel the right to do what it needs to do to defend itslf comes from the existentiasl threat she faces.

    As we noted, “Hizbollah’s struggle against Israel is not political in nature. It never was. In Hizbollah: Politics and Ideology, author Amal Saad-Ghorayeb makes clear that Hizbollah sees the conflict with Israel as an existential one, having nothing to do with politics or borders. Indeed, Nasrallah, Fadlalah, et al, have made clear that the existence of Israel, with any borders, will not be tolerated.”

    In addition, Hamas Charter notes that, “Israel will exist and continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”

    Further, Hamas makes clear that “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors…”

    By the way, how often do you suppose that Hizbollah or Hamas terrorist dropped leaflets tellling people to leave the area?

    Why do Hamas and Hizbollah place their facilities, assets and personnel in civilian neighborhoods? Why do you suppose the Israelis don’t do that?

    As we also noted, “Hamas, like Hizbollah, is a font of vile, racist and bigotry. To believe that either of these organizations are political entities only, is absurd. Hamas has made clear their struggle with Israel is not only existential in nature. As they have repeated, over and over, this is a clash of religions. The destruction of Israel is only one part of that clash.”

    Would you care to discuss Arab world media, school curricula or religious sermons? There are plenty of vido, audio and textual references.

    Attempting to portray the Arab world as a moral equal to Israel is absurd.

    You don’t want really to play the comparison game, do you?

  26. Bilgeman Says:

    SCA:

    “Koneko, what gives Israel the right to do what it needs to do to defend itslf comes from the existentiasl threat she faces.”

    Pearls before swine, chum.

    Check out Koneko’s blog, she’s shallower than piss on a plate.

    “You don’t want really to play the comparison game, do you?”

    She prolly thinks that you want to see her tit-job, and show her yours.

    Koneko or kittybuggerfly, or whoever you are, why not go back to what you know:

    http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/6/62/250px-Leslie-crack.jpg

    …and leave the politics to the grownups, okay sweetie?

    Regards;

  27. Bilgeman Says:

    SCA:

    Oh brother!

    Another failed law and order fantasist hung up on “rights”…
    as though some omnipotent and omnipresent Superpoliceman is going to show up and arrest Hizbollah.

    So anything else is “vigilante justice”.

    God,what a pack of schmucks.

    They speechify from an ignorance about the way the world really works so utterly profound that it MUST be pathological.

    They must think “democracy” was dreamed up in some college lab somewhere, rather than in the no-man’s land between opposing camps of armed warriors.

    Subtle? Moi? I can be…when it’s called for.
    I don’t think that now is the time to be subtle, though.

    I can help defend America by helping, in some infintesimal quanta, Israel in blowing out the Islamist bastards who have been bedeviling her.

    And that means to stand the fuck up and be counted.

    At least until I catch another ship.

    Regards;

  28. Koneko Says:

    Wow, I’m crying so hard right now. So hard.
    Your pathetic insults mean so much more than an actual response. Go you go.

  29. Bilgeman Says:

    Koneko:

    “Your pathetic insults mean so much more than an actual response.”

    Say something worthy of a response and you’ll get one.

    “Wow, I’m crying so hard right now”

    Then take another 19 bong-hits and pay no mind to the nasty (Bilge)man.

    As far as I can see, you’re just an ignorant little girl rebuking a fellow who is supporting Israel’s actions in defending it’s people and it’s land from the vampires and vipers who want nothing less than to finish the job that Adolf-Mutherfucking-Hitler started.

    So, if you want a substantive and adult conversation, can we begin with when you became an ally of Islamic Fundamentalist terror organizations and neo-Nazi skinheads?

    Regards;


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