The Israeli Beast
June 14, 2007
With a civil war raging in the PA, comparisons can be most helpful in understanding the players and arena (a more serious discussion of the Palestinian civil war can be found here and here).
Israel, a nation the size of New Jersey, can only lay claim to the following achievements:
Israel has more museums per capita than any other country in the world.
Israel has the second highest output of books published per citizen in the world.
Israelis hold more patents per person than do citizens of any other nation.
More than 85% of all solid waste in Israel is treated in an environmentally sound manner.
Israeli companies, Amdocs, Comverse and Nice pioneered voicemail, SMS and other cellular phone services.
Israel has the highest concentration of high tech companies industries in the world, relative to it’s population.
ICQ, the technology that powers AOL Instant Messenger, was developed in 1996 by a team of 4 young Israelis.
Israeli start-up company TransChip developed the first high resolution camera that fits on a single electronic chip, for use in cellular phones.
Israel is one of only eight countries in the world capable of launching their own satellites into space.
Israelis developed the world’s first cellphone at the Motorola research lab in Haifa, that companies largest research center in the world.
Israel ranks third, after the US and Canada, in the number of publicly traded companies on Wall Street.
Israel has more scientists and engineers per capita than any other nation in the world.
American industry giants such as GM, Ford and Lockheed Martin manage their manufacturing facilities using software written by Tecnomatix, an Israeli company.
Israeli company Given Imaging developed a video camera small enough to fit inside of a pill. The camera helps doctors diagnose digestive tract diseases.
Israeli scientists developed the first computerized radiation free diagnostic scanning device for detecting breast cancer.
Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation in the world.
Not bad for the offspring of monkeys and pigs.
To be fair, the Palestinians have the greatest number of suicide bombers per capita, as well as the largest number of openly terrorist organizations in the world.
The Arab world can lay claim to the greatest number of openly anti semitic regimes and populations in the world, by any standard of measurement. There are more copies of Mein Kampf sold in Arabic today than in any other language. In fact, the only volume more popular in Arab homes is the Quran.
According to UN Human Development Report, the Arab world has the lowest standard of education in the world, save for sub Saharan Africa. Given that there are virtually no schools in sub Saharan Africa, that is quite an educational milestone.
Of course, who the Palestinians are is no secret. We have seen those realities for decades. What is more interesting is to see those who doggedly support the Palestinians, despite seeing the barbarism first hand. That says a whole lot more about them than it does about the Palestinians.
For more ‘Cool Facts’ about Israel, see this.
June 15, 2007 at 9:26 PM
Yet Palis enjoys largest per capita help in world… and cry the song that they have nothing to do…nothing to eat, and had nothing to do with Terrorism….
June 16, 2007 at 3:27 AM
Yes, I have to hand it to you, recalling Israel’s Pyrrhic achievements built on stolen land and resources. I particularly appreciate the clear racist demarcation between them and us, the identification of Israel with Europe and the West (never part of its own Middle East region with which it refuses to reconcile) and the disdaining and clear contempt towards its neighbours. You wouldn’t harbour a superiority complex, would you? Surely not. The ‘Cool Facts’ has another far uglier side, here. But that might be too even-handed for you. I recently included both URLs, and criticised both. I do not deny I criticise Israel quite a bit, and I can appreciate that you have sought to be loyal to your “side”. I am aiming to dispense with these false categories, and make peace my “side”.
If you can read Hebrew, you may wish to consider reading Avrum Burg’s new book, Defeating Hitler (not yet available in English). All is not rosy in Israel, just as it isn’t in the OPT. We need to stop the empty triumphalism and chestbeating and demonisation from and of both sides. Perhaps when we are at that point, we can start talking, imperfectly and humbly, but with some sort of authentic engagement.
June 16, 2007 at 3:47 AM
The Arab world can lay claim to sheltering Jews when Europe was discriminating against them only a hundred years ago, a third of the Baghdad’s population was Jewish and Jews were respected), to astounding astronomical and mathematical discoveries, to numerous critical inventions such as the surgical instruments we use to this day, to preserving and translating the Greek and Roman texts that became the foundation for western civilisation. And more. And I’d be happy to provide detailed scholarly references.
Perhaps more prosaically but quite astutely, this comment was posted by Ernst from Amsterdam in response to Amira Hass’ article in Ha’aretz ‘Can you really not see?’ and seemed apposite in a blog of this content. He writes:
That, in a nutshell, is how Israel is perceived by many today. Arabs do not have a congenital loathing of Jews. In fact it seems to be the other way around, as documented in annual Israeli polls. Anti-semitism today is overwhelmingly about discrimination against Arabs, not Jews.
Only mutual understanding, respect and tikkun olam can help us get past this trauma, not them and us demonisation.
June 16, 2007 at 5:59 AM
I mistakenly clicked on the link to pg’s travel diaries. It’s amazing to learn that even the dogs in Europe are more civilized. How did that important fact escape me? I guess that when you only spend a few weeks in a foreign country, you have a better chance of seeing the big picture.
June 16, 2007 at 7:02 AM
People’s Geography- What utter claptrap and bullshit.
To what stoen land are you referring? The land that ws partitioned by the UN in 1948 or the land won in 1967 after Egypt and Syria kicked out UN peacekeepers, massed troops and tanks on Israels’ borders and threatened her destruction?
Do you have even the most basic understanding of geo-politics? Do you know that virtually every country comes into existence by virtue of conflict?
Israel’s achievements are a matter of record. Arab world failure are a matter of record. That you deem fot to label achievement as ‘European’ and as part of the ‘west’ only highlights your own bigotry.
The UN Report on Human Development puts Arab world education levels as the lowest in the world, save for sub Saharan Africa (and there are few schools in sub Saharan Africa) is not Israel’s doing. That is a choice that Arab leaders have made- Israel is not to blame for Arab failure.
Speaking of ‘your side,’ why not address current well documented and overwhelming racism, bigotry and hate that emanate every single day in Arab world media, school curriculum and religious institutions every day.
It is irrelevant how ‘may’ perceive Israel today- that is a matter of opinion.
The problems in the ME today have little to do with Israel- those problems are the result of some of the most evil and dysfunctional regimes in the world.
The Lebanese are bombing the hell out of the Palestinians- and for some reason, that doesn’t bother you.
In Algeria, the GIA raped children before dismembering them- yet that was not a big enough problem for the Arab world to be concerned with.
Jews came to Israel as real victims of Nazism. The built a democratic state with world class institutions, educational systems and an economy that is spectacular.
The Arabs, for whom ‘We’ll finish what Hitler started’ and whose religious leaders in Saudi Arabia proclaim on telethons that the rape of Jewish women and little girls is obligatory on Muslims, are not the equals of the Israelis in any sense- certainly not in the mo5ral sense. ITBACH AL YAHUD!= the calls to ‘SLAUGHTER THE JEWS!- are not a civilized religious or political expression.
What the Arabs have done in the past is irrelevant- today, because of their political and bastardized religious redefinition, they are a backward, bigoted and racist people. Those aren’t my words- they are the words of Arab dissidents, who long to see their people lifted out of the garbage heap they live in. Rather than come to the defense of those who would save their nation (and coincidentally have less of a problem with Israel than you do), you choose to identify with the dysfunctional leaders that imprison them.
That you defend the beasts that gave adopted the ideologies and beliefs of some of the most dysfunctional and repressive regimes in the world, speaks more about you than it does about the Arabs that have no escape from their oppressors.
Peace in the region is not that difficult to achieve:
* Cessation of hostilities and terror
* Secure borders.
* Diplomatic recognition of Israel.
Those are the minimum requirements as noted by Israel, the UN, the US, and the EU.
Which of those requirements are too onerous?
June 16, 2007 at 7:37 AM
The problems in the ME today have little to do with Israel- those problems are the result of some of the most evil and dysfunctional regimes in the world.
And they are evil and dysfunctional because they are Islamic regimes.
(…) today, because of their political and bastardized religious redefinition, they are a backward, bigoted and racist people.
Actually, they’re just ordinary followers of ordinary Islam. Islam has not been redefined.
June 16, 2007 at 10:54 AM
Points 1-5
I pity you for sincerely believing your own claptrap, if that is a label you wish to use.
Taking it item by item:
1. The land that continues to be stolen to this day in expanding illegal settlements, in the only country that refuses to define its own borders. From only the last week, from only February this year. And here’s a recently declassified document that shows Israel knew it was constructing illegal settlements, from the mainstream press.
2. I could ask the same of you. I’d be extremely surprised if you could hold up comparable professional qualifications in geopolitics, which I happen to teach. But even if you didn’t, I’m not about to denounce talented non-professional punters, and attempting derision as a debating tactic won’t work with me. Adept at geopolitical analysis you are not. You do shrill propaganda well, though. The fact that most states in the Westphalian system have come about through conflict in no way absolves Israel of its continuing crimes.
3. You can not judge as bigoted something I did not say. Where exactly do I identify achievement as western European, in pointing out that Israel likes to identify with Europe rather than the Middle East? In fact I uphold Arab achievement, which is in fact a matter of record and which you conveniently attempt to gloss over. Israel’s failures are a matter of record as well as the challenges Arab states face. With one in three children in Israel living in poverty and discrimination against women in Haredim society, as well as widespread racist attitudes and more people leaving the country, again, Israel is hardly as rosy as you claim. And it exists armed to the teeth like a garrison state perpetually afraid and unwilling to make peace and end the occupation, and launching a despicable attack on Lebanon that showed up its bellicosity.
4. Arab education. Indicators are very generalised and mask a lot of diversity in the region. A highly educated Lebanese student is vastly different from a Saudi one. Yes, militarised and often corrupt puppet Arab regimes do have to take responsibility for this and be made accountable. But it not wholly internal either, just as it can not be blamed on entirely on external factors. I recommend reading up on Dependency theory, wherein industrialising countries are thwarted in their modernisation endeavours through several factors, such as debilitating debt, which keeps them down. This is an external factor.
5. Who said addressing racism, bigotry and hate wasn’t a priority, both in Israel and the Arab world? Yet you somehow suggest that it is endemic to the Arab world, who by and large have a problem with Israel as an exclusivist and imposed state, not a problem with Jews? Yes, I do not deny there is some anti-Jewish sentiments as there are across the world, but you conveniently inflate them to suit your own hateful and rabidly anti-Arab worldview. Israel’s actions feeds this which in turn increases the bigotry and resentment — vicious cycle. The racism in Israel is also quite marked and well documented, (J-Post, March 2007) with an openly racist Dep PM in Lieberman. Racism exists and needs to be countered. Israel does not have a monopoly on virtue — or victimhood.
As to Arab world media, may I suggest you not rely upon the increasingly disregarded MEMRI if you do so? I understand Arabic and most networks are widely inclusive and far from racist. Anyone can cherry-pick the most apparently racist statements and disingenuously present them as the representative and definitive view. Thankfully Al Jazeera also broadcasts in English, with Jewish reporters, though the neocon ideologues in the US block effectively block it, at least so far. So much for a free society.
June 16, 2007 at 11:03 AM
Part 2: Points 6-12
6. On the contrary, some of the problems in the ME today do indeed have something to do with Israel. It is a straw man argument to claim that I would be blaming Israel for everything, as that would be clearly absurd. Corruption and dysfunctionality have been features of Arab governments, and I might add, the present Israel administrations as well. Again, neither side has a patent on corruption. Some concrete examples. Lebanon, a bustling and fragile democracy albeit with a delicate power balance between its confessions has, directly because of their expulsion from their native villages in what is now Israel, inherited Palestinian refugees in a dozen refugee camps who now number a tenth of the population. Do you expect any country not to encounter any problems when it takes on such a large number of refugees equivalent to a tenth of its population? The simmering social tensions, economic question and political climate would be substantially affected. Yet Lebanon took them in, though they didn’t enjoy full citizenship rights, they were looked after.
7 . Not quite right — a sin of omission here. While the Lebanese Army has targeted the group of mostly foreign fighters (who are not Palestinians) of Fatah al-Islam imported into the camp, it is true that innocent civilian Palestinian lives were lost. It is wildly inaccurate (“claptrap” if you like) to claim that the Lebanese were “bombing the Palestinians.” I suggest you read Seymour Hersh and Franklin Lamb here. Just a suggestion, if indeed you are open to reading challenging material and not simply material that fits your prefabricated ideology. I’d be happy to consider any reading you recommend, in turn.
8. Though a deplorable act, I’ve yet to see what relevance that has to the discussion at hand. For an Algerian atrocity, there is an Israeli one, a German one, a British one. And the silence and complicity exists everywhere.
9. Some of the postwar Jews came to Israel as real victims of Nazism, certainly. Some Zionists (did you expect them all to be lily-white?) also colluded with the Nazis to expedite the population transfer to the nascent Israeli state, sacrificing lives in the process. See Lenni Brenner’s scholarship in this area. But many settlers today come to Israel not as a result of discrimination but as a result of the promise of highly subsidised housing (The Forward), made cheaper in part through the unwitting largesse of the US taxpayer.
A democratic state? Try telling that to a fifth of Israel’s citizens, who are discriminated against (enshrined in law such as forbidding family reunification) and who experience otherwise, and treated like a fifth column. Within the Jewish citizens too, Ethiopian Jews have staged major rallies against discrimination against them. It is the Ashkenazi Jews who are not even native to the ME who exert the most power, at best only a dozen or so families really.
Much of the rest of the world is so disgusted with Israel’s actions, many unions (UK, South Africa) have voted to boycott these supposedly world class institutions. Lebanon also has world class institutions, but I’ve not heard so much chest-beating and chauvinism as here. Its very telling.
10. You cite an abhorrent incidence of racism in Saudi Arabia, and conflate that with the whole Arab world, a very diverse region with many countries, who do not harbour some sort of genetic or ingrained hatred towards Jews. Its sad that you feel this way, as it simply fits your simplistic manichean worldview and seems to justify your own hatred and disdain toward all Arabs, who you tar with the same brush. Isn’t that what you’re claiming that they are doing — tarring all Jews with the same racist brush?
Dissidents are esteemed in my books, wherever they are, including Israel. Two academics in particular who speak out include Ilan Pappe and Tanya Reinhart, who died recently. And who can go without mentioning the whistleblower who was hunted down by Mossad and kept as a political prisoner for several long years, Mordechai Vanunu?
You are also mistaken if you think all Arab dissidents (and you cite no examples) disdain their countries as “backward, bigoted and racist” people. In fact, they are usually quite loyal to their country and are dissidents out of love of their land.
Another example where you need to read over my response more carefully is where you claim that “you choose to identify with the dysfunctional leaders that imprison them.” I no more “identify” with them than I do my own government; apart from acknowledging it as the democratically elected choice of my country, when it imprisons people wrongfully. The US, Canada, Australia and Britain have all done this, imprisoning their own citizens without charge and trial. Guantanamo Bay, anyone?
So I am not in fact defending “beasts” which is a highly offensive characterization. If that term was attached to Jews you’d be pointing the racist finger but have no compunction in using it yourself. I’m sorry, these people are human beings. No, they can not all be blanketly described as “oppressors”. The Israeli occupation is what oppressors them, yet I presume you’d object to the Israeli government rightfully being labeled oppressors.
11. Finally, something on which we can finally agree, at least on this statement. You write: “Peace in the region is not that difficult to achieve”. Yes, indeed. End the occupation. Recognise the Palestinians. End the economic strangulation and matrix of control that prevents their development. And I have no problem with your other points: “Cessation of hostilities and terror (same applies to Israel); * Secure borders * Diplomatic recognition of Israel.”
12. On the last point, EU and US, yes, UN, no, if it is taken to mean the full General Assembly and not simply the supremely unrepresentative 5 Permanent Member Security Council or the Quartet, who do not the whole world make. And while we’re at it, how about adhering to 70-odd UN resolutions pertaining to Israel and the OPT?
These “minimum requirements” work both ways, and were already in fact met by Hamas. It was Israel, who doesn’t want peace (in the memorable words of Uri Avnery, “Help, Peacemongers!”) who thwarted this, as it gains more stolen territory through illegal settlements and refusing to define borders (how can borders be made secure if they are not first defined?)
Hamas kept a ceasefire for over a year, and has already acknowledged Israel’s existence as clearly a reality. Lest we forget that it is not Israel’s existence that is threatened, it is the Palestinians. This “recognition” precondition is a furphy, not demanded of either Jordan or Egypt prior to their peace treaties with Israel, designed to prevent meaningful peace talks. Must a Native-American recognize the right of the United States of America to exist?
Let’s move on.
June 16, 2007 at 1:12 PM
I can understand your wanting to move on.
I don’t know where to begin- your perceptions and disengagement from reality are are bordering upon the spectacular.
I shall address the ‘issues’ you raise randomly.
The Palestinians are the Israelis are not moral equals and never will be. In the last election, there were over 25 candidate that referred to themselves as ‘abu Hitler’ or some derivative thereof- and that was perfectly acceptable to the Palestinians. If you want to see more- many more- examples of beast like behavior, see memri.org and memri TV, each of which allows Arab world rhetoric and ideology to stand on its’ own.
That there are bigots in Israel and and other free and civilized nation, is of no matter- because that bigotry is not institutionalized like it is in the Arab world. The hate, racism and bigotry in the Arab world are not a ‘problem’- they are a way of life. For you to deny and then deflect away from that truth says a lot about your own racism and bigotry. To say that bigotry in the Arab world in ‘inflated’ is absurd. If anything, the real level of hate and racism are not at yet understood.
I wrote of a Saudi blogger’s idea: “…imagine a school that gave each student a glass of alcohol every day. Each day, beginning at tender nursery school age, the child was encouraged to drink the beverage that would come to poison his mind. Suppose that beverage was from the well aged bottle of anti Semitism.
Suppose also that once that child downed that alcoholic beverage, the teacher refilled that glass with more alcohol. This time, the flavor is religious bigotry directed at non Jews.
Suppose once that glass of alcohol was consumed by young dutiful children, the glass was immediately refilled with the beverage from the bottle of anti western and anti democratic values.
After decades, these children, now adults, go home every day, turn on the television and read the newspapers- and they are fed more alcohol. They get more when their kids come home from school, and share the same familiar poisoned ‘fire water.’ They poison they are fed gets the God’s seal of approval when fed to them from the pulpit- or so they desperately need to believe.
Of course, to keep a drunk or a junkie hooked, it takes an ever increasing amount of poison to induce the same stupor that blinds the drunk or the junkie to his own surroundings and dysfunction. The supply of poison never ends.”
http://sigmundcarlandalfred.wordpress.com/2007/01/22/another-perfect-storm/
Before you dictate to the Israelis their own biases, you ought to consider dictating to the Palestinians and Arab world.
In fact, the only thing the Arab world excels at, at a world class level, anti Jewish hate and sentiment.
As for the other drivel about settlements, lets put the record on the table.
With every peace deal, Israel has evacuated land in exchange for peace. They did it with Egypt and they did it with Jordan. The whole world saw what happened when Israel left Gaza and the greenhouses. As many predicted, the dysfunctional Palestinians (for whom killing Jews is preferable to having a state) destroyed the opportunity they had.
What I also find fascinating is the blatant lie that you feel desperate the need to propogate- that Hamas ‘recognizes’ Israel.
As has been publicized, that never happened. See the BBC here, for starters.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5122822.stm
It says in part:
“Palestinian minister Abdel Rahman Zeidan told the BBC the Hamas-Fatah document did not in any way recognise the state of Israel.
“There is no agreement between the Palestinians on specifically this phrase. You will not find one word in the document clearly stating the recognition of Israel as a state. Nobody has agreed to this. This was not on the table. This was not in the dialogue,” he said.
While some have argued that this means Hamas tacitly accepts Israel’s right to exist, it is becoming clear that that is not how Hamas sees it.
They believe that a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza is a first step – not a final step.
They believe that future generations of Palestinians will reclaim all their historic homeland. And that, in the end, there will be no room for what is now the Jewish state of Israel, our correspondent says. ”
Why the deceit on your part?
Israel is not obligated to give an inch of land- the standard is a land for peace, not land BEFORE peace.
I ask again, what exactly is so onerous here?
* Cessation of hostilities and terror
* Secure borders.
* Diplomatic recognition of Israel.
Those are the minimum requirements as noted by Israel, the UN, the US, and the EU.
You can dance all you like bit in the end, who and what the Palestinians and the Arab world are, speaks for itself.
The UN has already recognized Israel- that is not up to debate (except perhaps in your world). The ‘supremely unrepresentative’ UN members also include tens of the most repressive and oppressive regimes in the world. Explain to me again how these nations, with their record on racism, bigotry and hate are equal to free and civilized nations?
The Palestinians could have had a nation decades ago. By their actions, they have proved that killing Jews is their priority- and no amount of dancing and deceit can change that reality.
For every Ilan Pappe and Uri Avnery who offer opinions, there are an equal number of Arab dissidents who are imprisoned and persecuted for holding views more closely aligned to my own.
Like I said, your position says more about you than it does about the Palestinians or Arabs.
Sadly, I am in a bit of a rush. I will write a more detailed post on your ideas at a later time.
In the meanwhile, read the links I have marked ‘pages’ on the sidebar.
Learn a little.
In addition, here is a bit of clarity on the subject of the ‘civilized Hamas’ on recognizing Israel.
June 16, 2007 at 5:21 PM
wow! you disturbed a hornet’s nest! Stop and think. This part of the mudball we call earth has always been dominated by tribal hatred … if the arabs don’t have the jews to hate they turn on each other. Islam is a great example. Sunni? Shi’ite? Each tries to dominate the other … not a very good example of what a religion is supposed to be.
We human beings claim to be at the top of the evolutionary pyramid … but we sure don’t act like it.
I am a cradle Catholic … not a jew … but I try to greet people with the beautiful word …. Shalom!
June 16, 2007 at 5:23 PM
For what it’s worth, I’m a (lapsed)Anglican.
June 16, 2007 at 11:00 PM
Again, I pity you your racist beliefs, evasions and distortions, and note that you did not address many of my points.
The most important thing is that a human being is a human being is a human being. If you start from the inherently bigoted assumption that “The Palestinians are [sic-I assume you mean 'and'] the Israelis are not moral equals and never will be” that says a lot about your bigotry and subsequent racist-mired beliefs. Your whole belief system will be a racist house of cards.
The links you subsequently furnish will always then only look for evidence that apparently confirms it — ‘to the man whose only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail’. And nails are all you can apply to the diverse Arab world, which you clearly do not understand, and to which you apply highly racist and inapplicable generalisations.
You like to harp on about world class institutions. On the contrary, there are many instances of world class institutions. The Iraqis had an excellent medical system before Invasions I and II, an immoral war at the behest of Israel and the Israel Lobby. Of course, Israel is threatened by any success in the Arab world, such as Lebanon. And in neighbouring Iran, it can’t bear the thought of having its regional nuclear monopoly challenged, so the Lobby and their Christian Zionist lackeys would have the world rushing foolishly head-long into world with Iran, so Israel does not feel challenged with its undeclared nuclear weapons. What a joke.
I’ve already addressed MEMRI, which most of us in academe don’t even take seriously, and invite you to re-read my point more carefully.
This is an outright falsehood: “bigotry is not institutionalized like it is in the Arab world.” Bigotry most certainly is institutionalised in Israel, evidenced in the recent family reunion act that disbars Israeli Arabs from living with their own spouses if the are from the OPT. And that’s leaving aside the Jew only settlements and roads. This is not apartheid, this is much worse than apartheid a la South Africa. Fortunately, the world is waking up and more people are speaking up against the injustices.
And this just makes me laugh: “The hate, racism and bigotry in the Arab world are not a ‘problem’- they are a way of life. For you to deny and then deflect away from that truth says a lot about your own racism and bigotry. To say that bigotry in the Arab world in ‘inflated’ is absurd. If anything, the real level of hate and racism are not at yet understood.”
What nonsense. How do you know they are a way of life, have you visited the Middle East or are you basing your half-baked opinions on watching the discredited MEMRI? I most certainly can deny that patently false statement, and I’ve a more legitimate and stronger foundation on which to do so: I teach the Middle East, I speak Arabic, many of my friends and family are from the region, as are students. For you to absurdly claim that they are a way of life, I’d expect you to have a reasonable knowledge of the region, to have lived there and/ or know the people.
You need to confront your racism and examine your conscience. I happen to be a fellow Christian, though from a different denomination, and you harbour extremely un-Christian like thoughts. There are Palestinian Christians too, you know. They too are being persecuted and discriminated against in the occupation.
I’ve already addressed the “recognition” furphy — designed to thwart meaningful peace, and it is you who is desperate to propagate the myth that Israel ended its control of Gaza — it did not — and that greenhouses were gutted by Palestinians — it is the Israelis who have excelled at demolishing greenhouses and other buildings. Last October it destroyed more than 40 greenhouses in that blockade alone.
Israel’s existence is clearly a reality. The “recognition” is a side-stepping issue, not a serious precondition. Why is it so onerous for the Israelis to end the longest running military occupation in modern history and recognise what they’ve done to the Palestinians, ethnically cleansing the villages, and refusing to recognise them?
Another straw man wherein you address things I clearly do not say:
I did not say the UN did not recognise Israel. Read more carefully. Nor did I attach the descriptor “supremely unrepresentative” to the General Assembly, only to the 5 permanent member Security Council. If you obviously keep mis-representing my points, that undermines your credibility generally. “Free and civilised” is also a subjective measure — my American friends would question whether their country is at all the beacon for freedom and civilisation at the moment.
I end with one of my favourite quotes from Hannah Arendt, the great Jewish thinker. I may put it up in my own sidebar next to the Palestinian scholar Edward Said’s sublime quote, to serve as a reminder to people like you. You exhort me to learn, though it was intended derisively and not good-naturedly. I most certainly will, SC&A. We are all learning. A scholar never stops. You need to be prepared to read material that is not in lock-step with your pre-determined prejudices, that really questions your underlying assumptions that appear still stubbornly rooted. In that endeavour, despite our differences, I wish you well.
“And though tyranny, because it needs no consent, may successfully rule over foreign peoples, it can stay in power only if it destroys first of all the national institutions of its own people.”
– Hannah Arendt, The Origins Of Totalitarianism
June 16, 2007 at 11:19 PM
As for your Abu-Hitler brouhaha, I performed a search, curious to read more. The reference in your blog links only to another blog, and the link in any case has lapsed or is faulty. I expected this flippant moniker to yield substantial outrage, reflected in many results and that the Arab-baiting mass media to pick it up. Instead, I found less than two pages, all right-wing blogs. Again, you are clasping at straws to find anything and everything to demonise Arabs. Arabs, who are moral human beings, equal to any other.
June 17, 2007 at 4:09 AM
The head of the Anglican Church, Dr Rowan Williams, has wisely said of Israel’s apartheid wall that it is “a sign of all that is wrong in the human heart”, when visiting Bethlehem seven months ago. He has also wisely spoken up against the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Do a search on him or I’d be happy to provide references.
I have read your pages, SC&A. Your analysis, whilst containing glimmers of promise, is entirely misguided and wrong in its application. You exemplify the adage that “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.
Just for starters, did you not know that the modern phenomenon of terrorism and suicide bombings in the Middle East originated with the Jewish Haganah, Irgun and Stern Gang who bombed hotels and installations and killed scores of civilians?
The then-governing British rightly regarded these Jewish groups terrorists. Many of these terrorists later became Israeli leaders— Moshe Dayan, Yitzhak Rabin, Menachem
Begin, Ariel Sharon. So the phenomenon of suicide bombing started with Jewish terrorists. Today, it is mostly Hindu suicide bombers that numerically dominate all terrorist incidences, not Palestinians — see Robert Pape’s work.
Let’s take your ‘Birth of a Nation’ page. “Every Muslim could abuse any non Muslim as he saw fit,” you write, “and for the most part escaped serious consequence. ” The evidence for this? I wonder how many Muslims you personally know.
If we are looking at incriminating passages out of Holy Books taken out of context (they all have them), do you not know that the Talmud sanctions the ill-treatment of non-Jews, calling us Goyim (cattle?) Your fawning hagiography of Israel is profoundly misguided and simply wrong.
You write: “In their world, heroes kill. In ours, heroes save lives.” Actually, no they celebrate heroes who stand for self-determination and stand up to the interference of the US and UK who have coveted their natural resources, such as Nasser. What are Bush and Cheney if not mass-murderers, responsible for several impeachable crimes yet who have the loyalty and obeisance still of a substantial (yet diminishing) proportion of Americans, and responsible for so much death and destruction?
Quite apparent in your pseudo-psychoanalysis (“All these behaviors are first and foremost the manifestation of the denial personal temptations”) is your own projection. Your continued vilification of Muslims and Arabs is appalling.
You might find American Chris Hedges, who has spent time in the ME, instructive here:
“What kind of future could a society have if violence is a legitimate form of expression and exchange?” Indeed, and the militarist Israeli state should ask itself this pertinent question, as people are doing. Jewish children too re raised with abusive cult-programming and irrational hatred of Arabs. I strongly recommend Education or mind infection? by Nurit Peled-Elhanan, a Jewish and Israeli writer.
You claim that there is a Palestinian “addiction to violence”, a very good example of blaming the victim. Steal their land, treat them like cattle in open-air prisons, cut off contact with the outside world, curtail movement, bomb electricity stations, prevent economic development, and then wonder why they resist?!
Palestinian violence and resistance is episodic and in reaction to the Israeli attempt to exterminate them, it is not a pre-existing predilection in their DNA. It is the Israeli state which is addicted to violence. Last time I checked, Palestine hadn’t invaded a country. Nor had Lebanon. Israel has.
Lest we forget too that violence and militarism is endemic to most societies, most of all in the ones that attach to themselves grandiose labels such as “civilised and free”. Gandhi was once asked what he thought of western civilisation. He cleverly replied that he thought it would be a good idea.
Take a more right of centre writer, Thomas Friedman. Even he acknowledges that
and another, Samuel P. Huntington:
The other difference in most “civilised” states is that while yes, most states born in conflict, in Israel’s case, it was not just born in conflict (and ethnic cleansing), the state terrorism continues unabated to this day.
BBC ARTICLE
There are contradictory views in the BBC article you cite, right after that inflammatory quote you selectively fish out we also have the disqualifier: “However, a Hamas member who helped negotiate the agreement, Ziyad Dayeh, said Hamas support for a two-state solution was nothing new for Hamas.”
So yes, there is rhetoric by some Palestinians who chest-beat they want all of Palestine — a sheer fairy tale and they know it. Why do you seize upon this as somehow representative? Are you not aware of far more influential Greater Israel devotees who want to take over all of Palestine?. The difference is that one is rhetoric by a marginalised few (Palestinians), the other (Israel) is slowly in danger of becoming reality. Moreover, the BBC reporter cites a “negotiator”, unnamed, who said this. What authority does he have? I cite a recognised and named Hamas leader, not an unnamed negotiator.
Chris Hedges and others are right. We see the barbarity against the Arab world exposed in the genocidal sanctions against Iraq over more than decade between invasions that saw more than a million children die. We see it in the appalling looting of priceless treasures of humanity stolen by American foreigners upon invasion from Iraqi museums, despoiled and lost, a most shameful and despicable episode. And there were no suicide bombers in Iraq before 2003 either. War is the biggest terrorism, and what this criminal neocon junta have done, invading and destroying countries, seems to escape your notice.
You might care to examine history and contemporary events in more depth, and eschew selective episodes of Arab resentment for a deeper and more nuanced appreciation of the diverse Arab world. And remember:
June 17, 2007 at 5:02 AM
The most important thing is that a human being is a human being is a human being.
The point being?
If you start from the inherently bigoted assumption that “The Palestinians are [sic-I assume you mean ‘and’] the Israelis are not moral equals and never will be” that says a lot about your bigotry and subsequent racist-mired beliefs. Your whole belief system will be a racist house of cards.
This was obviously not directed at me, but still, the fact that the Palestinians and the Israelis are not moral equals stems from the fact that the Palestinians are mostly Muslims, and the Israelis are not. Since peoplesgeography claims to teach the Middle East and speak Arabic, it is only reasonable to expect him to be very well aware of the evil inherent in the religion of Islam and its incompatibility with Western values and societies (which also includes Israel, despite its geographical location).
Unless peoplesgeography is one of those people who do not have a problem with evil ideologies, or he doesn’t know as much about the subject he is teaching as he should and is actually ignorant about the basic nature of Islam, I don’t see how he can object to a statement that the Palestinians and the Israelis are not moral equals and never will be, unless he for example imagines that the Palestinians will one day cease to be Muslims or alternatively that the Israelis one day will be Muslims as well.
June 17, 2007 at 5:27 AM
Thanks for the great laugh, Islam Skeptic. I mean that sincerely, you got my gender wrong. Its a she you are talking to.
Well, I’ve already sent another lengthy (post-length) response but its pending in the moderation queue because of the number of links I embedded exceeds 2. That is why I have tried to be judicious picking links.
You are mistaken if I see evil inherent in Islam. There is evil-doing in every great religion, it is not “inherent” to any of them.
Our “skeptical” friend is also apparently unaware that Palestinians are not just Muslims, but Christians and Jews as well. I know a number of mixed Muslim-Christian Palestinian couples, in fact. No evil ideology or repressed subjection happening there. The three Abrahamic religions have co-existed quite peacefully in the Holy Land before Israel imposed itself on and terrorised the native Palestinians (both Christian and Muslim). I suggest you do more research and learn more about Islam. Are you suggesting that being Muslim makes you less of a human being than being a Jew? Your Islamophobia against a fifth of the world’s population is astounding.
June 17, 2007 at 8:34 AM
Look for a post later today, PG.
I decided to bring this exchange to the fore.
June 17, 2007 at 11:30 AM
You are mistaken if I see evil inherent in Islam. There is evil-doing in every great religion, it is not “inherent” to any of them.
peoplesgeography confirms my suspicion that she is unaware of the evil inherent in Islam, a subject she should have known more about if she teaches the Middle-East.
She should also remember (or learn, if she doesn’t already know) the very important distinction between what is done in the name of a religion and what a religion commands its followers to do. It is the latter part that is problematic with Islam, and it is this that makes Islam in particular inherently evil, whereas in most other religions the “evil-doing” done in their name is unrelated to or even contradicts the religious teachings.
Our “skeptical” friend is also apparently unaware that Palestinians are not just Muslims, but Christians and Jews as well.
I did write “mostly Muslims” above, apparently peoplesgeography missed this.
I know a number of mixed Muslim-Christian Palestinian couples, in fact. No evil ideology or repressed subjection happening there.
Anecdotal.
I suggest you do more research and learn more about Islam.
peoplesgeography should follow her own advice.
Are you suggesting that being Muslim makes you less of a human being than being a Jew?
Adhering to the will of Allah, which is what being a Muslim is all about, makes a person a worse person than if that same person did not adhere to the will of Allah. peoplesgeography might want to consult the Medinan suras of the Quran to see why this is so.
Of course there are persons who are only nominally Muslim, and these may be very good persons, precisely because their lack of adherence to Islam makes it possible. However, these people cannot take a principled stand against the evil inherent in their religion without exposing themselves as apostates.
Your Islamophobia against a fifth of the world’s population is astounding.
It would be interesting to get an explanation from peoplesgeography on what it is she sees in my previous post that suggests I suffer from the psychiatric disorder known as Islamophobia. My guess is that she either cannot give an adequate explanation, or else she’ll identify something that cannot correctly be classified as a phobia. She is likely to be just one more of many people who abuse the term.
June 17, 2007 at 3:50 PM
Islam Skeptic, thank you for your rejoinder. Granted, you did say “mostly Muslim”. I should think I do follow my suggestion to you; as previously mentioned, I reiterate, there are incriminating passages to be found in the holy books of all five of the major religions. If you wish to take a literalist interpretation, that’s your decision. Your selectivity would however distort your view. The use of the word Allah, though not inaccurate, is also superfluous, it is simply the translation of God. So substitute God in your statement and a lot of Christians would claim that they too follow the will of God, or try to. Faux Christians such as GWB claim to listen to Him too, most notably …
A flippant user of a term does not necessarily constitute abuse — you are suggesting that a devout Muslim who prays regularly and doesn’t practise usury etc makes a worse person, many people would call that a distortion and a misrepresentation suggestive of a phobia against the religion. Note that this is not at all a clinical term, but one used in popular culture. I hope its use has clarified things for you. So, no, you are not being accused of a a psychiatric disorder per se.
Anecdotal examples are not inherently disqualified either — experiential knowledges are often the most important.
June 18, 2007 at 12:08 AM
If you wish to take a literalist interpretation, that’s your decision.
Like the typical Islam apologist, peoplesgeography brings up the subject of interpretation, conveniently ignoring the fact that given the status of the Quran as the perfect literal word of Allah, it actually should be read literally. Interpretation is irrelevant when it comes to Islam, as it is not allowed.
The use of the word Allah, though not inaccurate, is also superfluous, it is simply the translation of God.
I am aware of that, though I consider it an insult to Christianity to imply that the god of Islam can in any way be the same god as that of Christianity, therefore I make the distinction between God and Allah.
a lot of Christians would claim that they too follow the will of God, or try to.
As I pointed out in my previous post, there is a difference between what adherents of a religion (claim to) do and what their religion actually commands them to do.
Faux Christians such as GWB claim to listen to Him too, most notably …
peoplesgeography claims that GWB is a faux Christian. This suggests that she should recognize the fact that there are people who claim to be adherents of a religion, but whose religious practice indicates that they are not actually true adherents of the religion. That is a tacit admission that a religion is not simply whatever its supposed adherents claim it is, because if that were the case, she wouldn’t be able to classify GWB as a faux Christian.
you are suggesting that a devout Muslim who prays regularly and doesn’t practise usury etc makes a worse person
peoplesgeography conveniently leaves out other important aspects of Islamic practice, such as jihad.
many people would call that a distortion and a misrepresentation suggestive of a phobia against the religion.
It doesn’t matter if “many people” do this, it still does not constitute a phobia, which makes it wrong to classify it as such.
June 18, 2007 at 8:37 AM
[...] 18th, 2007 The author of People’s Geography and ourselves have been having a conversation in the comments section of out post. We decided it [...]
June 22, 2007 at 9:15 AM
[...] between Israel and the Arab world. In fact, we were introduced to Ms Khoury after we published The Israeli Beast. She could not abide the sunlight. In her absurd world, Israel’s achievements are not the [...]
June 22, 2007 at 11:26 AM
[...] If the Palestinians really wanted to defeat the Israelis, they would cease their obsessive devotion to terror. The burgeoning security industry would collapse and the Israeli economy would spin into a recession. If all Islamist terror would cease, Israeli expertise in security and terror would no longer be needed anywhere in the world and that nation would be reduced to irrelevance (it’s not as if Israel has anything to offer, unlike the Arab world) [...]
June 24, 2007 at 3:18 AM
Islam skeptic: “Interpretation is irrelevant when it comes to Islam, as it is not allowed.”
Addressed here in Conversations with bigotry: on Israel, Islam and Ideologues:
http://peoplesgeography.com/2007/06/19/conversations-with-bigotry-on-israel-islam-and-ideologues/
May 6, 2011 at 6:57 AM
Congratulations, great website.