We’re The Problem And Other Fantasies
January 22, 2008
Yup, western values, along with Jews are the ‘root cause’ of problems facing the Arab and much of the Islamic world. If it weren’t for our hated values and the Jews, the Arab word would be a Utopian paradise for all.
Right.
From the NYT, A Cutting Tradition:
When a girl is taken — usually by her mother — to a free circumcision event held each spring in Bandung, Indonesia, she is handed over to a small group of women who, swiftly and yet with apparent affection, cut off a small piece of her genitals. Sponsored by the Assalaam Foundation, an Islamic educational and social-services organization, circumcisions take place in a prayer center or an emptied-out elementary-school classroom where desks are pushed together and covered with sheets and a pillow to serve as makeshift beds. The procedure takes several minutes. There is little blood involved. Afterward, the girl’s genital area is swabbed with the antiseptic Betadine. She is then helped back into her underwear and returned to a waiting area, where she’s given a small, celebratory gift — some fruit or a donated piece of clothing — and offered a cup of milk for refreshment. She has now joined a quiet majority in Indonesia, where, according to a 2003 study by the Population Council, an international research group, 96 percent of families surveyed reported that their daughters had undergone some form of circumcision by the time they reached 14…
According to Lukman Hakim, the foundation’s chairman of social services, there are three “benefits” to circumcising girls.
“One, it will stabilize her libido,” he said through an interpreter. “Two, it will make a woman look more beautiful in the eyes of her husband. And three, it will balance her psychology.”
Worldwide, female genital cutting affects up to 140 million women and girls in varying degrees of severity, according to estimates from the World Health Organization…
Nonetheless, as Western awareness of female genital cutting has grown, anthropologists, policy makers and health officials have warned against blindly judging those who practice it…[emp-SC&A]
More:
The men in this poor farming community were seething. A 13-year-old girl was brought to a doctor’s office to have her clitoris removed, a surgery considered necessary here to preserve chastity and honor.
The girl died, but that was not the source of the outrage. After her death, the government shut down the clinic, and that got everyone stirred up.
“They will not stop us,” shouted Saad Yehia, a tea shop owner along the main street. “We support circumcision!” he shouted over and over.
“Even if the state doesn’t like it, we will circumcise the girls,” shouted Fahmy Ezzeddin Shaweesh, an elder in the village…
For centuries Egyptian girls, usually between the ages of 7 and 13, have been taken to have the procedure done, sometimes by a doctor, sometimes by a barber or whoever else in the village would do it. As recently as 2005, a government health survey showed that 96 percent of the thousands of married, divorced or widowed women interviewed said they had undergone the procedure — a figure that astounds even many Egyptians. In the language of the survey, “The practice of female circumcision is virtually universal among women of reproductive age in Egypt.”
The challenge, however, rests in persuading people that their grandparents, parents and they themselves have harmed their daughters. Moreover, advocates must convince a skeptical public that men will marry a woman who has not undergone the procedure and that circumcision is not necessary to preserve family honor. It is a challenge to get men to give up some of their control over women.
…And it will be a challenge to convince influential people like Osama Mohamed el-Moaseri, imam of a mosque in Basyoun, the city near where the 13-year-old girl lived, and died. “This practice has been passed down generation after generation, so it is natural that every person circumcises his daughter,” he said. “When Ali Gomaa says it is haram, he is criticizing the practice of our fathers and forefathers.”
...It is an unusual swipe at the Islamists who have promoted the practice as in keeping with religion, especially since the government generally tries to avoid taking on conservative religious leaders. It tries to position itself as the guardian of Islamic values, aiming to enhance its own wilted legitimacy and undercut support for the Muslim Brotherhood, the banned but popular opposition movement.
Here’s the deal. The Arab and Muslim world have no business deriding our values, demanding that we accept their own as equal or superior or passing judgment on any civilized society. They have no business telling us to clean our house when the stench from their own is so putrid.
Female Genital Mutilation, along with that other delightful practice known as ‘honor killing’ are a stain and blot on civilized society, period. No culture or society that turns it’s back on those practices is in any position to dictate what is and isn’t moral to others.
The slaughter in Sudan has gone on for over 20 years. The regime in Khartoum made no effort to conceal their desire to slaughter the Christians and Animists of that nation. They were so successful that 2 million were killed and there are virtually no Christians or Animists left in that country. The proof is in the pudding, as that truth has been of little concern to Arabs and Muslims the world over.
The genocide in Algeria seems to be coming off a moratorium. The GIA Islamic fundamentalists spent decades raping boys and girls in the name of God before murdering and dismembering them. The government offered an amnesty to the rebels, save for those who committed sexual crimes against minors. The GIA were outraged at that precondition. As of late, there has been a resurgence of fundamentalist activity. Now as before, the majority of the Arab and Islamic world is silent, preferring instead to excoriate westerners and Jews.
In Mauritania, the slave trade, almost exclusively the domain of Arab slave traders goes on unabated as it has for centuries. As expected, the Arab and Islamic world remains silent on the issue.
All the while, much of the Arab and Islamic world are demanding that we apologize to them.
We will wait for Muslim shame and apologies addressing the vile and despicable Muslim world portrayals of Jews, Judaism, Christians and Christianity. We will wait for as well as religious pronouncements of the same before we consider their criticisms as valid.
We will wait for the Muslim shame and apologies directed at the regular bombings, shootings and mosque and church burnings in Pakistan- with worshipers inside.
We will wait for Muslim apologies, outrage and shame directed at mass, violent protests against the barbaric practice of beheading and other kinds of torture so often found in the Muslim world.
We will wait for the Muslim shame, apologies and outrage at the fact that according to the UN Report on Human Development, the Arab World has the lowest standard of education in the world, with the exception of sub Saharan Africa.
We will wait for the Muslim shame and apologies and outrage at the 140 million women that have suffered Female Genital Mutilation.
We will wait for the Muslim apology and outrage at Arab world Holocaust denial and the excoriation of Iran’s Almadinejad’s stated aim of ‘wiping Israel off the map.’
We will wait for the Muslim apology and outrage directed at Muslim cleric that whip their flock into a frenzy, with cries to ‘Slaughter the Jews!’ and ‘Slaughter the Christians!’- and how all too often, parishioners leave prayer services, looking for victims.
We will wait for the Muslim apologies and outrage directed at their own cultures and societies that have allowed Mein Kampf to be at the top of the best seller list, after the Quran.
There are but a few of the issues that separate most of the Arab and Islamic world from the civilized world.
Why on earth should the America, the west and Israel deal with most of the Arab and Muslim world as if they were our equals?

January 22, 2008 at 11:00 am
A society that doesn’t care about a woman’s God given right to sexual pleasure and will conduct rituals to further remove that from happening, is barbaric.
I am repulsed that clitorectomies are a reality.
To call these people civilized is a blatant falsehood.
What if social mores were different and the women in these countries reversed the tables and did this to men? What a vas deferens that would make, huh?
LK
January 22, 2008 at 12:36 pm
[...] racism and genocide have no place at the table of civilized nations. No exceptions (pay attention. See this). Leftist bastard whiners may say we are guilty- and certainly we are not perfect societies- but [...]
January 22, 2008 at 1:19 pm
The NY Times has committed a grave ethical lapse in this coverage.
From IranAffairs.com:
Despite what the NY Times asserts, FGM is in fact not a “Muslim” tradition. It has no actual religious basis. Rather, it is a social custom in some places, and predates the arrival of Islam. It is virtually unknown in the vast number of predominantly Muslims countries of the world.
Indeed, of the places where FGM is widely practiced, the practice is not even limited to Muslims. As the US State Department says about Ethiopia, for example: These practices cross religious boundaries, including Christians, Muslims and Ethiopian Jews (Falashas).
But of course you wouldn’t know that by reading the article in the NY Times which repeatedly invokes Islam and Muslims, without any concern for any of these facts.
But apparently someone at the NY Times’ website caught this and decided to eliminate the over reference to “Muslim girls” in the headline. Now, I don’t have a problem with that. Fixing errors is the job of editors, after all. However, what I do have a problem with is the unethical way this was done. If the NY Times has made an error in the print version of the paper, especially one that taints an entire population of 2 billion Muslims as mutilators of the genitals of little girls, then the only ethical way to deal with it would be to formally publish a retraction that openly acknowledges the error – rather than quitely fixing the headline with the hopes that no one would notice.
January 22, 2008 at 2:40 pm
At this stage of the game, the origins of FGM are irrelevant.
In fact, in the here and now, the practice is predominately encouraged and tolerated by various Muslim cultures and societies.
Falashas, for example, have not practiced FGM in any meaningful way for decades according to the WHO. further, the practice among Jews and Copts had no origin in religious ritual, unlike Islam. To this day, there are Imams who not only condone the practice, they also encourage the barbarism. With 140 million victims in Egypt alone, to cite Copts and Jews as equally culpable is laughable, top say the least.
You are making the ape in a tuxedo argument.
You can put an ape in a tuxedo. You can teach the ape to dance and even eat with a knife and fork, but in the end, teh only one who believes the tuxedo is camouflaged is the ape.
To imply moral relativism is deceitful, at best.
Further, to cite IranAffairs.com is ludicrous! This site supports a regime that condones and encourages Holocaust denial, persecution of gays and Bahai’s and a host of other malignant ideas.
There is no moral relativism here. There never was and there never will be.
Ask abhorrent as the NYT might be at times, compared to the sources you cite, they are paragons of virtue.
As I noted, nations like Iran do not get to sit at the same table as civilized nations.
January 22, 2008 at 3:04 pm
It is in fact prohibited by “Muslim cultures and societies” (whatever that means – Iran for example has neither a cultural nor a social connection to Indonesia, which in turn has precious little in common with, say, Algeria)
January 22, 2008 at 3:15 pm
I will agree that Iran has little in common with the Arab world (notwithstanding the Ayatollahs attempt to ‘Arabize’ the Persians.
Nevertheless, if FGM is really haram and prohibited, why are there Imams who support the practice? Why are Islamists defending and encouraging FGM?
Why are Egyptian clerics (for the most part) NOT willing to call the practice outright Haram?
If the practice is so anti Islamic, how did 140 million women become victims to FGM in an Islamic nation and why are religious fundamentalists defending and encouraging the practice?
Hass, I’m sure you are a very nice person and sincere in your beliefs. This is one subject you had best not opine on, because the evidence is clear- and, as they say, the proof is in the pudding.
Cultures and societies that tolerate FGM or turn a blind eye to FGM are cultures and societies that treat women poorly.
I can give ample evidence of that, if you like, starting with Iran.
January 22, 2008 at 6:02 pm
[...] So we are clear, let’s recapitulate. The west are not moral equals to Iran, the Arab world or much of the Islamic world. The west and the US in particular, are superior to Iran, the Arab world and much of the Islamic world. Regimes that oppress their own citizens, abuse women and children, embrace terror, racism and genocide have no place at the table of civilized nations. No exceptions (pay attention. See this). [...]
January 22, 2008 at 9:07 pm
There are fundamentalist and preachers in the US who espouse shooting abortion doctors. Does that make Christians responsible? Give it a break. Stop trying to use the suffering of these women to vent your spleen about Islam.
Incidentally, the more autocratic and oppressive a regime is in the Mideast, the more likely it is to be a US ally. See Saudi Arabia…
January 22, 2008 at 9:28 pm
You are right of course.
Iran is a paradise. So what if a few women are stoned, teenage girls and mentally ill executed and women have their children ripped from their arms to be killed by their fathers.
Shall we get into the public beatings?
Do you want to continue to play the comparison game?
While there may indeed be fringe fundamentalists in the US and elsewhere, they are just that- fringe.
Again- do you really want to get into the comparison game?
As for autocratic and repressive, there isn’t a whole lot of difference between Iran and KSA, notwithstanding what the Iranians would have you believe. The KSA has the muttawa, Iran has the Revolutionary Guard and the Baseji (remember the plastic keys given to those 12 year olds?)
The Saudis are indeed sutocrtatic and oppressive, but when all is said and done, Iran is a worthy contender for corruption and sponsorship of terror.
Wanna play some more? Hass, you are not equipped to engage me or anyone else with half a brain that has spent time in the region.
The good news is that in the time I spent in Iran, I found more people outraged at what they must endure at the hands of the mullahs and fewer people like you.
There is no moral equivalence between the west and the dysfunctional regimes in the Middle East.
That said, i feel sorry for those like yourself when Iran rids themselves of the corrupt mullahcracy. My distinct impression was that they will not look kindly at those who supported and defended the regime that oppressed an entire nation. While the mullahs will be in Switzerland enjoying their stolen money, others will pay for their part.
It took some doing, but Iran has finally regressed to an Arab led state.
Congratulations.
January 22, 2008 at 10:15 pm
One: The article describes the type one circumcision usually done in Indonesia…not the dangerous type done in the Middle East and Africa. They imply it’s nothing, which it is if only a small slit is done.
Two: The end of the article insists that we shouldn’t be judgemental. that’s the problem: Did you know that the anthropologists discussed why we shouldn’t judge?
http://www.bloggernews.net/112050
January 26, 2008 at 2:15 am
SC&A: You forgot the whole killing-homosexuals-just-for-being-homosexual part. Remind him about that, too.
February 20, 2008 at 9:50 am
[...] clarity is that we must be tolerant and forgiving of those who say God told them to kill us (See We’re The Problem And Other Fantasies for the absurdity of such [...]