The Waiting Game: ER Wait Times In Canada vs US
August 7, 2008
Average ER Waiting Time Nears 1 Hour:
The average time that hospital emergency rooms patients wait to see a doctor has grown from about 38 minutes to almost an hour over the past decade, according to new federal statistics released yesterday.
The increase is due to supply and demand, said Dr. Stephen Pitts, the lead author of the report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
“There are more people arriving at the ERs. And there are fewer ERs,” said Pitts, an associate professor of emergency medicine at Atlanta’s Emory University.
Overall, about 119 million visits were made to US emergency rooms in 2006, up from 90 million in 1996 – a 32 percent increase.
ER wait times in Ottawa, Canada’s capital district:
Got an urgent medical problem? If you visit an emergency room in western Quebec’s Outaouais region, prepare to wait an average of 20 hours and 42 minutes before being discharged or admitted to another ward in the hospital.
According to data compiled by the Le Comité de coordination national des urgences (CCNU), which works with emergency wards across the province, the average wait time in the Outaouais is four hours above the provincial average and two hours longer than last year. In addition, the data does not include the time spent waiting before seeing a doctor.
The data was published Wednesday in the GESCA newspaper chain, as part of its third annual rankings of Quebec hospitals.
The longest wait times in the region were at the Gatineau campus of the Gatineau hospital, where the average wait time was 25 hours.
Yesiree, just what we need- A Canadian style health care system.
August 7, 2008 at 7:03 am
in the great white socialist north, wait times depend a great deal on where you are. the bigger the centre the longer the wait. in an area like kingston ontario your wait time is more in line with the time stated in the u.s. study but that is also changing and that is unfortunate.
August 7, 2008 at 7:32 am
I don’t want to try to tell you that our system is great and wait times are short but Outaouais is not Ottawa and you are misleading your readers. While they receive federal funding, individual Canadian provinces are responsible for health care. The story refers to a region in Quebec, that happens to be also in the capitol region, however Ottawa is in Ontario. They are talking specifically about the Gatineau region in western Quebec and may well be referring to a rather small hospital. I live in Ontario. The last time I was in an emergency room (May this year)I saw a doctor in 20 minutes and was done within an hour. Wait times vary. I very much doubt anyone is waiting 25 hours in an Ottawa hospital unless it’s not much of an emergency.
August 7, 2008 at 7:43 am
Thomas- I specifically noted that I was referring to the capital region. Still, I concede that I should have been more clear. The region is question lies just over the river, in plain view of the capital.
As for your wait time of 20 minutes, congratulations.
You are far luckier than people in Toronto, Canada’s largest and most prosperous city and environs where wait times can easily exceed 12 hours.
And we haven’t even begun to talk about wait times for tests and surgery or the ever increasing number of people whp cross the border for medical services.
August 7, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Wait…what?
Those numbers aren’t even comparing the same thing:
THE US NUMBER:
“The average time that hospital emergency rooms patients wait to see a doctor has grown from about 38 minutes to almost an hour”
THE CANADA NUMBER:
“average of 20 hours and 42 minutes before being discharged or admitted to another ward in the hospital.”
also: “In addition, the data does not include the time spent waiting before seeing a doctor.”
So the first info tells us that in the US you have to wait about an hour to see a doctor. The info for the Canadian system doesn’t tell us how long we have to wait to see a doctor…it only tells us how long the average patient spends in the ER AFTER seing a doctor. There doesn’t seem to be any point in putting these numbers side by side as if they were a comparison.
August 27, 2009 at 11:47 am
Good show pointing this out. This piece is INTENTIONALLY misleading.
August 10, 2008 at 6:20 pm
[...] THE WAITING GAME: ER Wait Times In Canada vs US …. [...]
October 26, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Yes wait times here in the north are higher I don’t believe your stats but I will have to check. That said I have never heard of a Canadian going broke trying to pay his mediucal bills.
November 14, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Thanks for posting! Glad to see a good comparison of waiting times at the emergency level, and not just with sustained cases.
March 13, 2009 at 10:47 pm
So, how about we compare numbers to numbers. How long does the average person in Canada wait to *see* a doctor, not get discharged? According to another website, the average ER wait in Canada is shorter than it is in the US. Not only that, because so many Americans have no insurance, the ER is their first-stop for medical care. Whereas in Canada, people aren’t clogging the ERs in the same way.
http://www.ryananddebi.com/2008/12/19/healthcare-wait-times-us-vs-canada/
June 24, 2009 at 1:59 am
Oh pleeese…what nonsense.
I am a Canadian who has lived in the US for 10 yrs, Florida, Connecticut and now Seattle. You will always find someone trying to build their politics into an argument for the US health system. But let’s deal with reality. Here’s what I’ve really experienced in both countries.
Canada’s health care system, in general, is so far superior to the US it is a national American shame. Wait times can say anything. I have not seen any difference in my experience. Medical quality is not much different either. I’ve had good and bad experiences on both sides.
The big difference is this. I have to pay $12,000 for a pathetic medical insurance policy that entitles me to average services. I pay $1,000 in Canada based on my income for every medical service I can realistically imagine. In serious emergencies I’ll go to either country. For everything else, unless you are VERY rich in the US, the Canadian system is equal, fair, and offered to the entire country! How is it that the most powerful country in the world cannot match that after all these years???
June 24, 2009 at 5:39 am
That’s nice, Greg, but when all is said and done, waiting times in Canada are longer and the large and ever increasing numbers records of Canadians who cross into the US for treatment is well documented.
Further, even the Supreme Court ruled that individuals have the right to immediate, outside medical treatment and for some strange reason, even politicians in Ontario have made clear their preference for private medical care.
When Canadians referred to their medical coverage as the ‘North Korean modwl,’ you know that there is a problem. I suggest you read teh Frasier Institute’s analysis of Canada’s Health Care system.
Lastly, I know about health care costs. You pay a lot more than $1000 a year for health care in Canada- the transfer payments from a tax crazed Ottawa make that clear.
August 5, 2009 at 4:10 pm
SC&A,
I am glad I found your post, because you reference exactly what I am looking for.
I cannot find much beyond anecdotal evidence (and data from sources that have funding trails that make them useless in an argument) mentioning these Canadian who cross into the US for treatment.
You mention that this is a well documented phenomenon, and my gut tells me that I should be able to find some data on it, but I can’t. Could you please post either links, or references to the data supporting this? Much appreciated.
July 26, 2009 at 3:51 pm
The United States pays 15.3% of its GDP on healthcare, while Canada spends 10%. To state that Canadians prefer the American model of healthcare is a misrepresentation at the very least. If you want to pay more for your healthcare because you believe in a free market system and don’t care if people cannot get care then I respect your opinion, but don’t put words in the mouths of an entire country which are in fact your own or misrepresent ER admission and discharge times as ER waiting room times to make yourself feel better.
August 1, 2009 at 5:30 am
There are those of you who say Canada’s health care system is superior but give no evidence as to why. Yes our health care is expensive but the U.S. is the cutting edge in innovation in heath care. Students from all over the world come to the U.S. to study medicine. Thousands of people come to the U.S. from other countries with single payer systems to get medical treatment. If Greg payed $12K per year and got average services then he needs to get another insurance provider. I was paying $9K a year and got PHENOMENAL coverage. 1 week for an MRI and 3 weeks for reconstructive shoulder surgery, no hassle. Even still, I would have saved money by paying for my surgery OUT OF POCKET for that surgery was the only time I used my insurance. Avid consumers of health care are the ones who complain the most.
August 9, 2009 at 9:36 pm
You do know you are comparing “wait times in the US to see a doctor” to “total time of emergency room treatment in Canada” right? Being kept longer for additional observation and tests is not a bad thing.
August 10, 2009 at 2:05 pm
It’s about efficient use of resources–i.e. money, so follow the money. Let’s start with $100. A Canadian pays $100 in taxes that goes to the universal health care system. The system is non-profit, so $100 gets spent on delivering medical care for everybody.
An American pays $100 to an insurance company. The insurance firms takes, 10% profit plus 10% more for admin fees, that leaves $80 to the health service provider. The health service provider is a for profit company, so take another 10% plus admin fees of 10%, at the end of the day, the real value of health care service available is now down to $64.
That’s why to get the same $100 worth of health care a Canadian gets, an American needs to spend $156. So which is the more efficient way to spend health care dollars?
August 11, 2009 at 4:08 pm
I once thought this way too, but I began working for the government and realized that whatever is lost to the “Profit Motive” is gained by the increase in effiency (in the private sector) and advances in research and development.
The american system may be more expensive but that is because the leading edge is always more expensive then being just a follower. Almost all new drugs and the new treatments are done in the United States or for the United States market. Why? To make money. In canada or NHS the cost controls prevent new treatments from being implemented because the pay back is too long. Once a treatment is perfected in the United States it travels everywhere else.
So in the end the Profit driven system that is so expensive for americans ends up saving the Canadian and the world for that matter a large amount of money.
One other thing, don’t be nieve in thinking 100% of your tax money is spent effeciently. I would doubt that it approaches anything close to even 80%.
August 20, 2009 at 9:57 am
Does it bother anyone reading this exchange or posting on it, that many of these arguments are at best, clichéd and at worst, false?
First, why even make any argument at all if you are not going to list a source? All you have to do is type in exactly what you wrote to Google, and you will most likely find something legitimate on it by page 3. Even if you are right, there is no good reason anyone should listen to you without a real source (this includes myself, I am aware).
Secondly, your anecdotes are worthless also. Again, it is not that they are wrong, it is that they are unhelpful to a conversation about public policy.
Lastly, would the writer please respond to everyone’s question about the difference in the two pieces of data he mentioned (wait times to see a doctor vs. wait times before discharge)? I know this is just your personal blog, but I found it when trying to actually answer this question, and you dont’ even approach that. You are playing the same game that every public figure in office and on TV likes to play, and its called distortion.
None of us are as smart as we think we are, that is what research is for.
August 20, 2009 at 10:04 am
The free market speaks:
http://www.freep.com/article/20090820/BUSINESS06/908200420/1322/Canadians-visit-U.S.-to-get-care
October 14, 2009 at 9:22 pm
I am from Ottawa, across the river from Gatineau. I am actually a freind of the father of the head of the Gatineau Hospital. The Gatinau Hospital is notoriously bad for a number of reasons. The salaries are lower there than the hospitals in Ontario so many staff there are quick to work across the river the first chance they get, leaving lots of vacancies. Second, Gatineau’s population has skyrocketed in recent years and because of the cheap housing, daycare, and college/university along with the higher taxes, you have a poorer and more sickly population that across the river than Ottawa. Quebec has less healthcare funding than Ontario because it is not as wealthy of a province, though it’s quickly catching up. Quebec also has a higher percentage of seniors than Ontario thus more of a demand on healthcare.
Gatineau is currently building a large brand new hospital to take the strain off the current one.
It is very common to go to an Ottawa hospital, where wait times are only a fraction of what they are in Gatineau and Quebec public health insurance covers it, though rarely there are small nominal administrative fees, and see a parking lot fully of Quebec plates. Last time I went two years ago, I waited just one hour and I was low propriority. Just west of Ottawa, some of the small towns have hospital wait times that are even shorter.
Univerisal Public Health Insurance is seen as a basic human right in Canada. A recent poll gave it 88% public support and only 12% of conservatives were against it. I hear now many developing countries are moving toward a universial system, like somewhere between achieving democracy and getting electricity and running water in every home, every society establishes universial health coverage. I find it amazing the US doesn’t have one.
November 11, 2009 at 11:02 am
How about using two sets of data that are related.
Avg wait time to see a doctor in the US doesn’t fit with the avg wait time to get out of the ER in Canada.
Gotta love misinformation!